According to The New Republic, President Donald Trump’s lawlessness is getting worse, but the public is now clearly rejecting it. Trump gave a new interview in which he made some striking admissions about the wrongfully deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia that only demonstrate how reprehensible his treatment of this whole saga has become. Meanwhile, new polling shows a large public backlash to Trump’s extra-legal tactics. We don’t think that Trump and Stephen Miller anticipated this public response. We think they thought they had successfully acclimated voters to their lawlessness. The opposite is happening. Yet all signs are that they’ll continue plunging us into this abyss. The New Republic interviewed Chris Newman, who’s one of the lawyers for Abrego Garcia’s family and is general counsel for the National Day Laborer Organizing Network. Here are some excerpts:
Question: President Trump was interviewed recently by Time magazine.
He was asked about Kilmar Abrego Garcia Trump, “Have you asked Bukele to
return him?” Trump admitted, "I haven’t," and said his lawyers
have not told him he has to. Chris, that’s an astounding admission. Your
response?
Newman: Like everything, it’s difficult to interpret.
On the one hand, it appears that Trump is softening and indeed backing away
from the position of Stephen Miller, who appears to be higher on the
organizational chart than his own vice president. On the other hand, it seems
to be an admission as well that he’s violating the Supreme Court order because
the order clearly said that he was supposed to facilitate the return of
Kilmar Abrego Garcia. And the fact that he hasn’t tried seems to be a dead to
rights admission that he is not complying with the order. From a political
lens, it appears to reflect what is actually happening, which is public opinion
is turning against Trump on this issue, and on immigration broadly. But as a
legal matter, again, we continue to inch closer and closer to the proverbial
constitutional crisis that people have been afraid of and some would even
say—potentially rightly—that we’re already there.
Question: Well, he is currently defying the Supreme
Court, which has again ordered him to facilitate Abrego Garcia’s return and
he’s not doing that. To your point, Chris, the Time magazine
interviewers actually did press Donald Trump on the thing you raised. They
said, Well, OK, if you haven’t asked Bukele to return him, then aren’t you
violating the Supreme Court’s order to facilitate his return? Trump
stammered and said something like, Well, the lawyers aren’t telling me I
have to do that. They don’t really want to do that at this juncture. That
strikes me as pretty damning. Trump is admitting it’s an option, but he’s not
taking it.
Newman: Yeah, and it makes you wonder which lawyer, if
any, he’s talking to. For example, is he talking to Erez Reuveni, the
Department of Justice lawyer who admitted that Abrego Garcia was mistakenly
deported and then subsequently fired—seemingly because of that admission? Or is
he talking to Pam Bondi? Or in fact, is he just making it entirely up and he
hasn’t spoken to any lawyers at all? The fact is that we don’t know. And also
the fact is that this is also part of this trick mirror thing where Trump
is trying to make it seem like he ultimately is all three branches of
government. It doesn’t really matter whether he’s spoken to lawyers or not. His
administration must comply with the Supreme Court order.
Question: Right, and he was actually asked during the
interview whether generally speaking he thinks he has to comply with the
Supreme Court. And of course he said, I greatly respect the justices and
so forth. I think that they may be moving toward compliance. I want to flag
another moment from the Time interview. Trump was asked why he
won’t just bring Abrego Garcia back to the United States and retry him for
deportation through lawful channels. Trump answered: “It’s something that,
frankly, bringing him back and retrying him wouldn’t bother me.”
But then Trump adds again that his lawyers “don’t want to do
that” at this moment. To be clear, Chris, the administration does have the
option of bringing him back and recontesting his withholding of removal status
or seeking to deport him to a third country. Trump now just said flat out
that he’d be OK with this. Well, what the hell are we waiting for then? How is
this not a big deal?
Newman: Again, I don’t know. All we’re asking for is
for Kilmar Abrego Garcia to get a fair hearing and due process that is entitled
to all of us in the U.S. And then the chips can fall where they may. The fact
that he’s being deprived of that and they continue to double down is not just
something that’s putting Kilmar’s life at risk. It’s putting all of our
rights at risk because, again, this is the proverbial test case as to whether
or not Donald Trump can suspend core elements of the Constitution whenever he
wants. And if he gets away with it on this case—because maybe the political
winds are going this way or that way—there’s no question that there will be an
erosion of constitutional rights for every single person in the country.
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